#this post took so long bc I kept cross referencing the book so I don't fuck up stuff

[hotd-brainrot]

On thirteen children of Jaehaerys and Alyssane and why I think they were shitty af

I want to preface this by saying this is only my opinion on the matter and you are free to disagree. Also that I do think they were decent rules but they were pretty bad parents, specifically to their daughters. However while I do see a bit part of the fandom hate on Viserys(rightfully), I feel like many people forget/don't know much about Jaehaers and Alyssane. So let's break it down, shall we?

So, their first child Aegon, dies merely days after being born, so he isn't relevant to this discussion. Daenerys, their second child, while she also died young, at only the age of 7, Jaehaerys already started showing his sexism towards her. Alyssane considered her an heir to the throne since she was their eldest at the time, but Jaeherys did not, preferring Aemon as his heir, through the male line.

To appease Alyssane, he he suggested they marry them so they could rule together, rendering Daenerys to queen consort. It did not come to pass because of Daenerys dying of the shivers.

Now for the topic of Aemon and Baelon I will say that for the most part, their parents seemed to have treated them fairly. Do I suspect it was because they were men? Yes. Will I give them some credit for it anyway? Sure. Non trumatized children were hard to come by in Targaryens it seems.

Next, we have Alyssa, who was also Baelor's wife. By Targaryen tradition, she should have married her brother Aemon, but due to how much she trailed after Baelon, Queen Alyssane decided she was going to let them marry. It is also important to note Alyssa was the only one of their daughters that was allowed /able to ride a dragon.

I do suspect Jaehaerys didn't think his daughters needed to learn how to ride a dragon and because they planned on marrying them off, to not take the dragon with them. -insert bombastic side eye-

Maegelle was another one of the "easy" daughters for them to deal with. She was descirbed as very pios and later became a septa. She also bridged a gap between Jaehaerys and Alyssane during their Quarrels.

Vaegon was...well. He was certainly not described to be a pleasant person and while it was planned for him to marry his sister Daella, he never seemed to be interested. Here we see first sign of neglect on Jaehaerys's part imo. While Alyssane said it seemed Vaegon and Daella don't seem to be well match, he continuously shrugged her off. Until Vaegon insulted Daella to tears by saying she can barely read and all she is good for is giving some lord dumb children. After that bethroal was broken.

He also never claimed a dragon of his own, which I find interesting with how only two generations later we have so many dragons, even with "less Targaryen blood". But I digress. He went to the Citadel and refused the title of the Prince of Dragonstone after Baelon died.

Now, Daella. She was pretty heavily autistic coded and likely had some developmental disorder as well as anxiety. (Which considering the amount of incest is probably a wonder it's that rare but I disgress) This is where I believe showrunners got the idea for how they wrote Helaena in the show. She was described as shy and often frightened. Her sister Saera loved to prank her and leave a cat in her room, of which Daella was deathly afraid of.

Now, Daella is one of the reasons I truly began to hate Jaehaerys and Alyssane. After her disastrous engagment to her brother, it was "difficult" for her to find a husband. There were several suitors but she didn't like them for one reason or the other.

Once she turned 16 though, Jaehaerys put his foot down. He told Alyssane to give her a choice of who to marry but that she must get married by the end of the year.(Because god forrbid she actually waits for the age when she may survive childbirth)

In the end, Daella choose Rodrik Arryn out of three suitors. Rodrik was 36 years old and Daella who was 16, was his second wife. She got pregnant two years later, in 82 AC and died giving birth to Aemma Arryn. (Daella also knew she was going to die as soon as she became pregnant which is why some speculate she was a dragon dreamer)

After that, Alyssane and Jaehaerys had their First Quarrel. Alyssane didn't understand why Daella was forced to be married so young despite clearly being such a sensitive child. Which tells you how fucking bad that was.

Next up was Saera. And oh boi, was she a lot. It is said her first word spoken was no and that she continously used it after that. It also seems she wanted more attention than Alyssane wanted to give or be able to provide because she often screamed until she got the attention. Alyssane even remarks on how difficult she was even as a child.

It seems that with all the children running around most of them were left with wet nurses and servant so they most ran around. Saera's pranks and jokes were often cruel, especially concerning her sister Daella, who was already often scared. Instead of addressing it properly or considering "oh shit maybe we should pay more attention to our 'problem child'" Jaehaerys and Alyssane ignored it.

Until she was revealed to have slept with three of her favorites, Ser Braxton Beesbury, Lord Roy Connington, and Jonah Mooton and declared she could marry all three of them like Maegor.

Jaehaerys' brilliant solution was to lock her up in her chambers and tell Alyssane he is disowning her. When Saera tried to escape by claiming a dragon, he improsoned her in the tower and later sent to the Silent Sisters as a punishment. (I do find it interesting that was enraged him the most was her trying to claim a dragon). And like. Yes, she was obviously wild at this point but for someone to be this wild at age 17, you must have really, really done something wrong.

Saera ended up escaping from Silent Sisters, and her time there sounds like torture, including shaving her head, beating her for when she broke the rules, etc. She killed a septa during her escape and became a prostitute.

Jaehaerys' answer to all that? "She has always been a whore." Wonderful parenting. I wish Alyssane had poisoned him right then and there.

Then, we have "problem daughter" number 2, Viserra. She was described as very beautiful, vain, and while also being very high spirited like Saera, she didn't scream for attention but got it in different ways.

She liked to make boys fight to her attention, one time notably telling two of them that whoever put a head in dragon's mouth could have her hand in marriage. Thankfully, dragonkeeper intervened before anything happened.

The only one she wanted to marry was her brother Baelon, though, who was widowed after the death of Alyssa. Alyssane thought she wanted to be queen rather than truly love Baelon. So she made a match for Viserra when she was only 15, to Theomore Manderly. I couldn't find his exact age, but Viserra would have been his 4th wife and 14 years prior his daughter was one of Alyssane's companion. It's safe to say he was not of appropriate age for a 15 yeat old.

To try and stop the betrothal, Viserra snuck into Baelon's room and laid on his bed naked. When he found her, he sent her away.

A day before she was supposed to be shipped off to her new husband, she snuck out again to have "one more night of fun and laughter". She and her friends had a horse race, in which she collided with another horse, fell off her saddle and broke her neck.

It seems Alyssane hated her daughters being even a bit ambitious, to a point where she marries them off waaay too young just to get them away from court. And I genuinely don't understand? Especially in terms of Viserra. She was only 15. The only explanation to me is that Alyssane was really scared she'd suceed and replace her as a queen one day, which is fucking ridiculous.

I will also take a moment to give Jaehaerys another point for being shitty here, since after Viserra was born, Alyssane told him she doesn't want to have any more children. Due to her health being influenced after giving birth 10 TIMES! Jaehaerys' answer? Our mother gave birth in her 40's! Their mother, who died in childbirth after giving Rogar Baratheon his second child, against advice of maesters. They also literally watched her die so. Extra point! Really, someone should have murdered this guy at this point.

Next, we have Gaemon, who was born prematurely and died only three months later. Which is not surprising considering my previous point. But did Jaehaerys stop trying to impregnate his wife? No!

So, next child was Valerion, who was another premature baby and died before his first nameday. Alyssane was left bedridden for 6 months after giving birth fo him.

Did Jaehaerys stop here? Also no folks! Because their mother gave birth at 46 years old before she died so surely Alyssane can too? Despite being pregnant for almost 12 years of her life at this point?

Their last child was Gael. She was described as "winter child" both because of being born in the winter and because the Queen was well past her spring years when she gave birth to her. She was frail and followed her mother everywhere. When she was 19, she disappeared. Some say ahe died from the fever, some that she had her heart broken by a traveling singer, who impregnated her. In that version of the story, she drowns herself after giving birth to a stillborn.

And that, folks concluded 13 children of Jaehaerys and Alyssane! It seems to me they did an okay job up until Alyssa and then things went more and more downhill. The sheer amount of mortality rate is insane, even for medival times. Like infants died yes, but grown children? The fact that Saera lived the longest simply by running off to a brothel is insane.

If you read up until this part, I appriciate it. God knows how fucking long this is. If anyone has any more question on any of them, my asks and dms are open